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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:43 am 
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All this is very inspiring Terry. I have always wanted to flask seedlings especially with the abundance of species found in India. I have my friend in Bournemouth and I can ask him to get me some media and the jars with the autoclavable vents. I would mostly be interested in flasking nobile type dendrobiums, vandas and cymbidiums. Is there any culture medium that covers all these genera? And where can I get this media some place close to where he lives. I wouldn't want to put him to too much trouble.

And congrats on the success!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:52 am 
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Prejith, you do not need special jars. Most jars with screw on lids will work well such as jam, honey etc. You do not need to vent them for seed sowing but you do for replates. I just drill a 2mm diameter hole in the lid and cover with a venting patch before I sterilise them. Others I know just use a small round 'Band Aid' (the type that seal all the way around) instead of the venting patch.

I know nothing of the different types of media for different species so can not help there but you could look at this site http://members.cox.net/ahicks51/osp/ From what I have read Aaron Hicks at the Orchid Seedbank Project has a lot of information and you can buy stuff direct from them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Went through their site but from what I noticed, I think it is basically the same stuff for all species except paphs.

Did you use a different media for germination and replating? And is Band-Aid good enough for venting ?

Too many questions but I guess you've got me all charged up!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:11 pm 
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I use the same P6668 medium from Sigma Aldrich for both the seed and replating flasks but with a different recipe.
For 1 litre I use:-
Seed 13.5g P6668;5g sugar;7.5g agar

Replate 20g P6668;5g Sugar;7.5g agar; 25g mashed banana (to help root growth).

Other recipes I have seen add potato as well as or instead of the banana.

I have never used the Band Aid but a flasker I know only uses them and his flasks seem ok.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:31 pm 
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hi terry sorry to but in i use band aids nexcare spots i use them as they are multi resueable un like once use venting systerm available in england but as the nexcare which you can only get in the u.s is also much cheaper i have had better results useing Hyponex medium rather than p668 for germinating cattleya regards steve


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:13 am 
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You mean these?

http://www.amazon.com/Nexcare-Softn-Ban ... B001CBBQJU

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:16 am 
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Thanks Terry. I went through their website and the recommended amount of medium to be used to make a litre was 27.3 g. Is there any specific reason you reduced that amount in your recipes ? I also noticed you've added sugar while sugar is already a component of the medium.

I contacted them and they will be able to import P6668 for me but it comes in a litre pack. How many grams does a litre pack contain and once opened should the entire contents of the pack be used up?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:31 am 
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Prejith when they say a litre pack do they actually mean just the right amount to add to 1 litre of water? The packs I buy have no weight on them but are labeled as 10 litre packs.

I use the amount of P6668 as recommended by a friend who was into flasking and these amounts have worked fine for me with the additions I mentioned. I can see no reason why you would want to use 27g for seed germination, it seems over the top. This amount may work for re-plates but I don't know as I have not used that recipe.

The P6668 is hygroscopic so should be kept in a sealed airtight container.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:59 pm 
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cricketerry wrote:
The P6668 is hygroscopic so should be kept in a sealed airtight container.


It should also be kept in the fridge or freezer (and then left to warm up to room temperature before opening to prevent condensation on the powder).

The extra sugar is added to make up for what has been left out by using less P6668. There is about 20g of sucrose/glucose in the P6668 per 27.3 g of medium so if you use only half of the 27.3 g (i.e. 13.7 g) you have to add about sugar back as if it were the full 27.3 g.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:22 pm 
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I contacted them and they have both 1L and 10L packs. Did your 10L pack weigh about 10 kilos or is just right for making 10L of medium? I think you would be the best person to answer this question having handled the product yourself. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Thanks Tyrone. That explanation was good enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Prejith the 10 litre pack contains enough medium to make 10 litres. The whole pack weighs less than 450g so I assume that it contains about 273g of powder (their 27.3 x 10)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:11 am 
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Thanks Terry. That explains it. The agar is what seems so expensive. Do you think a medium which comes with agar premixed would be good enough ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:17 am 
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PreSam wrote:
Thanks Terry. That explains it. The agar is what seems so expensive. Do you think a medium which comes with agar premixed would be good enough ?


I see no reason why a pre-mixed agar/medium would not work provided the medium contained all the nutrients required.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:46 am 
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A few more months have now passed and plants from the original sowing are now looking more like real catts and starting to produce their first proper growths. These plants are shown in the last two pics. The first pic shows plants from a different cross done a few months after the first.

The next project is a cross between Cym. Peggy Sue and Cym. devonianum.

I did post this a couple of days ago but it disappeared so this is a repeat.


Attachments:
File comment: These are plants from another sowing, several months brhind the first.
IMG_4541 (640x427).jpg
IMG_4541 (640x427).jpg [ 215.32 KiB | Viewed 809 times ]

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Last edited by cricketerry on Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:20 am 
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cricketerry wrote:
The next project is a cross between Cym. Peggy Sue and Cym. devonianum.

I did post this a couple of days ago but it disappeared so this is a repeat.


I replied to this a couple of day ago myself :lol:

I don't know if you saw my question the other day Terry, but can you estimate how high the seedling losses have been? Exculding the losses due to re-plating when there is a lot of 'wastage' due to under-developed plants.
How many viable plantlets have you got now from all those jam jars? I'm only asking as I am still thinking of try this one day myself (but not with that Cyp! Much too difficult for a first attempt)
I have totally enjoyed reading this whole thread, it has been an education.

Also I would be very interested in a couple of those Cym seedlings if you get any ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:59 am 
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I don't know if you saw my question the other day Terry, but can you estimate how high the seedling losses have been? Exculding the losses due to re-plating when there is a lot of 'wastage' due to under-developed plants.
How many viable plantlets have you got now from all those jam jars? I'm only asking as I am still thinking of try this one day myself (but not with that Cyp! Much too difficult for a first attempt)
I have totally enjoyed reading this whole thread, it has been an education


I gave away 4 flasks to various people and have kept 12 of the larger seedlings all in individual pots and all of these are still ok. About 20 of the smaller plants went into seed trays and I lost about 30% of these to fungal rots of some sort. This was my fault as I paid little attention to them as they were my 'backup' if things went wrong with the lager plants. I had to make a decision on how many to keep because of space constraints but wished I could have kept them all.

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Also I would be very interested in a couple of those Cym seedlings if you get any


You will be top of the list for seedlings if I succeed with the cym cross as I know how much you like them. Pollination was about 6 weeks ago and the two flowers I fertilized have nice pods. I did try the reverse cross using devonianum as the pod parent but these did not take.

Have you seen the couple of plants that Brian (cymbidiman) has put on ebay? I stopped bidding at £5.05.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:36 am 
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cricketerry wrote:
I lost about 30% of these to fungal rots of some sort. This was my fault as I paid little attention to them as they were my 'backup' if things went wrong with the lager plants. I had to make a decision on how many to keep because of space constraints but wished I could have kept them all.

Quote:
Also I would be very interested in a couple of those Cym seedlings if you get any


You will be top of the list for seedlings if I succeed with the cym cross as I know how much you like them. Pollination was about 6 weeks ago and the two flowers I fertilized have nice pods. I did try the reverse cross using devonianum as the pod parent but these did not take.

Have you seen the couple of plants that Brian (cymbidiman) has put on ebay? I stopped bidding at £5.05.


That is not a bad percentage all things concidered and it sound like the standard 'Damping off' fungus that hit them, the strong survive ;)
I have no idea why, but I have heard of this problem before with a reverse cross using devonianum and other speices, they will cross out quite happily, but can have a problem with there own fertility, some say it is due to plant maturity and you need a very mature plant before it will make seed. I don't know how true this is, but it seem reasonable to me.

Yes I am bidding on one of the plants :lol: The 'Feathered Fancy' is the one I am going for. Brian has also has an interesting Dendro on there 'Dendrobium speciosum'
Did you get one of the Cymbidium devonianum x madidum ensfieldii that was up there this last week?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 am 
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For those of you who have been following this thread and are still interested, here are some of the plants from my crosses. The plants are now clearly catt types and producing new growths, the largest leaves are about 15cm above the top of the pots. It is possible that I may get a flower this year but I would say definitely next year.


Attachments:
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (1) (1024x683).jpg
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (1) (1024x683).jpg [ 445.25 KiB | Viewed 2988 times ]
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (2) (683x1024).jpg
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (2) (683x1024).jpg [ 386.33 KiB | Viewed 2988 times ]
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (3) (1024x683).jpg
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (3) (1024x683).jpg [ 387.28 KiB | Viewed 2988 times ]
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (4) (1024x683).jpg
Mari's Song X 07-05-12 (4) (1024x683).jpg [ 478.26 KiB | Viewed 2988 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:09 am 
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I am new here and finding this information all very fascinating! Good luck with it all. I've hear of 'flasks' before but not realised how intricate the whole process is.
Paul


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