The Orchid Forum, for the UK and Europe (previously known as The UK Orchid Forum) • View topic - Germinating Phalaenopsis Seeds & Stem Propagations
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:26 am 
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Here is an update on the progress, I replated this weekend using P1056 which is P668 plus banana, supplied from Kirks orchids. http://www.kirksorchids.co.uk/.

The medium pack is really eash to mix and comes supplied with the water, all you have to do is add the agar and charcoal send in small bags and boil and add to the flasks.

The protocorns have become nice and round and you can see tiny little hairs growing out of them. There is quite a differnece in the colour and size of the protocorns with the homemade medium and P668 medium used for the mother flasks.

I would welcome any suggestions from anyone for improving the Banana based recipe, perhaps more sugar?
Or is it perhaps micro nutrients or trace elements that might be lacking? Is there anything you would change/add to the recipe?

Here are some pics of the mother flasks.

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File comment: P668 Mother Flask
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File comment: Banana Recipe Mother Flask
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You can see how much greener the protocorns look in the P668 flask compared to the Banana recipe flask, they are also larger in size.

I took some pics of my glove box / aquarium on its side. I decided to work in a sealed space this time, so taped together some gloves and used a rubble bag to create an enclosed space. Previously worked with the side open, has made me think about looking into making a laminar flow cabinet.... :think:

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File comment: My Glove Box
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File comment: Glove Box from above
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So all items placed inside and spayed with a 15 % bleach solution left for 25 mins. Then I replated into 10 flasks putting 12 or so protocorns into each one. Now we have to wait and see if there is any contamination, fingers crossed... :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

Here is one of the replated flasks...

Attachment:
File comment: Re-Plated onto P1056
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I think I may have been too generous with the medium in the flasks about 2cm depth of medium.
Can anyone advise on how much depth of medium you need for the replated flasks?

There were some protocorns left from the mother flask at the end of the replating, so rather than waste them in the bin, I am trying another experiment, I have put them in some spagnum moss which is sitting in some water with a little orchid feed in it. So they are not sitting in the water but mixed amongst the moss and hopefully the spagnum will stay moist enough to grow on? Worth a try anyway, will let you know how that gets on.

Has anyone tried growing protocorns outside of a flask like that?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Hi All, Banana in germination medium in high concentrations will inhibit germination, banana in low concentrations 5 grams or less will promote germination in some species but not all as with paphs banana will inhibit germination,
If you were to add more sugar you would change the osmotic strength of the medium as the total of sugars in the medium is 54% in solution you could use different sugars such as glucose at 10 grams or fructose at 10-15 grams per litre
for the basal salt content you could try orchid focus grow or M,S,U i,e rain mix at 2-3 grams per litre
or just stick to what works P668 or P723


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Congratulations on getting everthing working so well, providing there is no contaminationyou will have plenty of plants to play with in the future.
crystalorchid wrote:
I would welcome any suggestions from anyone for improving the Banana based recipe, perhaps more sugar?
Or is it perhaps micro nutrients or trace elements that might be lacking? Is there anything you would change/add to the recipe?


My take on the look of your protocorms is that they are lacking nutrients rather than anything else. You could do as Steve suggests and add this or that but to me it is just reinventing the wheel. The P668 works well and is readily available now that Steve is suppying it, forget the homemade and concentrate on the important bit of growing the crosses.


crystalorchid wrote:


I think I may have been too generous with the medium in the flasks about 2cm depth of medium.
Can anyone advise on how much depth of medium you need for the replated flasks?


I do think you have too much in there, not that it will hurt, it just means you could have produced more flasks for your money. I would go for 15mm max.


crystalorchid wrote:


There were some protocorns left from the mother flask at the end of the replating, so rather than waste them in the bin, I am trying another experiment, I have put them in some spagnum moss which is sitting in some water with a little orchid feed in it. So they are not sitting in the water but mixed amongst the moss and hopefully the spagnum will stay moist enough to grow on? Worth a try anyway, will let you know how that gets on.

Has anyone tried growing protocorns outside of a flask like that?


Yes I did but I failed with mine. I put them on some old bark pieces rather than on moss but they died after a few weeks. :oops: They were probably lacking in food and of course they were more susceptable to changes in temp and humidity.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Thanks for comments Steve and Criketerry... I will probably park the home made medium experiments to resume at a later date, it has worked to some degree. I will be replating the home made medium mother flasks into replate medium so the protocorns should pick up hopefully.

Still no contamination in the 10 flasks done previously; they are growing nicely getting bigger will take some more pics when they start looking more interesting. I've got more mother flasks to replate... going to have alot of little baby phals.... now to find some space somewhere.... :confusion-scratchheadyellow: :roll:

The experiment I tried with the spare protocorns I put them into spagnum moss in a plastic drink cup and then covered with cling film with a small hole, they all seemed okay for about five days and then they gradually died and disappeared. I wonder what sort of conditions might work? They had the same light and warmth as the replated orchids, it shouldn't have been too wet as they were not sitting in the water and the ones in the replated jars are fairly wet anyway. So must be lack of nutrients, or contamination that killed them. I did put water with some feed with the spagnum moss thinking the moss would draw it up from the bottom of the cup and the protocorns would then absorb that and grow.

Would like to try it again, as I will def have spare protocorns, any ideas of what might work growing protocorns outside a flask from the mother flask?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Just an update on how the baby phals are progressing. The date I fertilised the flower was the 1st Jan 2012 so these pics are close on to 10 months on from being crossed.

2 out of 25 replated flasks got contaminated, quite pleased with that rate as I'm still in the learning stage.

The protocorns are facinating in that some seem to form a mass of tiny roots, others form a normal looking single orchid, some have loads of shoots like they are forming 20 orchids from one protocorn.

Attachment:
File comment: Flask of Phalaenopsis Babies
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Attachment:
File comment: Flask of Phalaenopsis Babies
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Starting to form leaves and looking more like a phalaenopsis orchid. That is a root on the nearest plant.
Attachment:
File comment: Flask of Phalaenopsis Babies
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jar3.jpg [ 65.54 KiB | Viewed 7254 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:26 pm 
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They look REALLY good, congratulations......... and only 8% contamination is also great you must be so pleased, I know I would be. :clap:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:12 am 
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And they look so adorably cute and healthy! Congratulations are in order!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Well done, congrats!
Thanks' for writing here from time to time how things are going...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:10 am 
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In the test tube, the plant looks like a test tube baby, but when it grows up, it is like a butterfly. Beautiful!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:35 am 
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Wow, I like it. It is amazing!
http://www.genomics-sequencing.com/

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:43 am 
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Crystalorchid, I know this tread is from a long time ago but were you able to bloom out any of your plants and if you did what was the variation like?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:15 pm 
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Hi Terry, not been on the site for a long while.... so sorry for the slow reply to you...

The stem prop you see on the first page is currently in flower and doing well.
The first of the plants from the NOID crosses has a stem and will probably open in a couple of weeks time.

I will definitely add some pics when it flowers and show the parents etc. they were quite wild crosses of NOIDs i had at the time, so should be interesting.

So the timings are roughly:
Pollenation - Feb 2012
Sowing - Aug 2012
Flowering - Feb 2016 (hopefully)

So it will have taken 4 years from pollenation to flowering. You certainly have to be patient!!

I still am propagating, with Phalaenopsis species/ primary hybrids now rather than NOIDs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:29 pm 
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This is the test tube stem propagation you can see on the first page of this thread. This is the second flowering and it was propagated back in Aug 2012.

Being a stem propagation it's flowers should look the same as it's parent. You can see in my profile picture the parent plant's flower. There is some difference in the flower with less small dots, but pretty similar, might be environmental conditions that cause the difference?



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Excellent, I will be looking forward to seeing any pics of the cross you made as they flower.

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