The Orchid Forum, for the UK and Europe (previously known as The UK Orchid Forum) • View topic - How do you say...
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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Well before I make more suggestions I was wondering a bit why you didn't follow up my last ones.

Anything in your pronounciation list with 'eye' in it is whrong as i in latin is pronounced as ee. When you go trow your entire list with just this suggestion you would have a list that is (for some seriuosly strange reason) unique in any english website/book about Latin pronounciation.

The strange thing about the eye sound is that it is very addictive. I often also use it when speaking to english speakers and collegues of mine such as J.J. Vermeulen and Barbara Gravendeel who are quite renowed botanists I constantly have to remind that Bulbophyllum lobbii is not pronounced lobbee-eye. They admit that they are whrong but it's just so increddible addictive.

But addictive or not if you want to make a proper list it is THE chance to let people know how it's pronounced.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Aren't all letter 'v's pronounced as 'w' in latin as well? Also, aren't 'j's pronounced as 'i's?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Hello

I somehow missed your post Rogier van Vugt. I shall sort that very soon.

Not really sure about the latin, not my strong point. can anyone back up marlynshouse as i have no real idea on that.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Rogier van Vugt wrote:
@F2F
Don't get me whrong here. This idea of the list is very good and many names have quite the good pronounciation here. But there are some really odd ones there as well (Like the Isochilus I mentioned above.)
What's the point is whriting a pronounciation down in a way that any english speaker would do so. The point of this list is to show how it's really done.
You don't have to ask these pronounciations to other people as long sas you follow the rules.

That way you can just take any name and translate it into reasonably good latin pronounciation.
names like Coelogyne are very dificult. Presonally I would also not now how to whrite the pronounciation of oe down in English pronounciation. I cannot think of an English word that has that sound in it.


I do see the problem there. this list is only really ment to be a guide to help to an extent but would be good to sort some more of those out. it was only started from a couple of lists i merged from books and the internet, but...

...you are right we do need to have a proper list so people get to know how it's pronounced instead of the rought guide it started as. so time to have a better go i guess.

i shall do the 'eye' first to 'ee' i shall see if i can find a book on latin i think to help to do some more of them or a good website, think thre was a link somewere posted.

well time to start more modifications to the list 'ee's' first and then finding a way to say 'oe' :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:37 am 
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Early latin, classical latin, vulgar latin and medieval latin were all pronounced differently. There are recommendations on how to pronounce botanical latin (do a Google search), it is probably best to follow that.

Isochilus is an interesting case as Iso is a Greek root (meaning equal) and cheilos is Greek for lip, so could ligitimately be pronounced using Greek pronounciation rules.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:12 pm 
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First of all, nobody knows how Latin was spoken. Also, botanical names have been invented mostly centuries later, so whatever was meant there is also open for debate. Sometimes latin writing style has been used for greek words.

On coelogyne..
Its derived from greek. It's from koilos and gyne, and 'oe' has been used to write down oi. As in koi fish.
G is pronounced as in 'got' and 'gangster'. Y is pronounced as 'u', and the 'e' is short.
So, it should sound like koi-lo-GUU-neh.
Which I'm sure nobody does..
When in doubt with diphtongs like ae, eu, ao etc. in Latin, the general rule is that it should be pronounced separately, I believe.
But, there have been books written on the subject, debates are still being held. We just have no idea how to pronounce it.

Also, dutch and german speakers of Latin are considered another group entirely. We pronounce the oe even more differently. Something like euh-dee-mah (oedema or edema).
The sound of the dutch 'oe' is even more weird for most languages. It sounds like the 'o' in 'do' or 'doing'.



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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:23 pm 
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A further complication is that species names derived from the names of people or places should probably be pronounced in a way compatible with the way the place or person's name is pronounced.

A still further complication is that some species (e.g. Dendrobium jenkinsii) use letters 'j' which are not found in latin.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Hello

a google seach seems to be the way for some latin :D

I am starting a revised version of the list at the now. i shall have the list based on botanical latin but i will enclude a few other ways for some taking areas of the world in to consideration etc.

thanks for all the idea and info, once altered i hope this list is even more helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Does anybody know if the start of Rangaeris is pronounced "Rang" or "Range"?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Short a, like 'man'.

Hard g, like 'gate'.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:38 pm 
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OptikaNET wrote:
Does anybody know if the start of Rangaeris is pronounced "Rang" or "Range"?

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"Run-gairees", with the "r"s being pronounced like in a stereotypical German or Swedish accent, the "un" like in "under", and the "g" like in "gun". The "air" is prnounced like the word "air", and the "ee" is pronounced like the letter "e", while the "s" is short like in "stop".

I'll try to revise the list, as it seems like it hasn't been done yet.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:24 pm 
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Hello

Been a long time...

list now revised, but...

... has suddenly become and interesting one! seems to be 3 ways of saying this one!

...a look around in books and the web, it seems to widely come up as ran-gah-ER-is most putting Hawkes 1978 as the source.

have added all 3 to the list for the moment but what do others think as seems a bit strange :think: have mainly heard it said as RANG-Gairees my self, only occasionally the rang being run, but never as ran-gah-ER-is but seems to be like that in most books :think:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Few years since this has last been gone near.

Couple of things regarding links posted in earlier comments: First Link site does not seem to have been updated recently. Second Link site does not work anymore/for me.

Was checking to see if anyone had come across or posted this link. Seems not, unless I missed it.
http://www.pvorchids.com/Pronuncation%20Guide.htm#GEN-C

Appears relatively up to date and quite comprehensive, whether it will remain up to date is another matter. Found it after I learned that Osmoglossum pulchellum had been re-designated as Cuitlauzina pulchella and had little idea on how to pronounce the new Genus name. Hope it's helpful to others!


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:57 pm 
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Hello

time waits for no man, or something like that the saying goes...

it has most certainly has been some time since the list has been updated, or any suggestions made for that matter!

will put a link to the website you have posted with the list... is and certainly will be a help to others 8-)

sort of saves a lot of list adjustments as someone has now made the website with them on... but wonder if it was there when i first started the post all those years ago... but none of us found it ?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:20 am 
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With searches you will often find sponsored and more popular links at the top, and then usually it will go to the less popular and not sponsored links lower down the list of search results - which as I am sure you are aware can be many pages long of results, and many people wont go past the first few pages.

So I think the advantage for me was that I was looking specifically for "Cuitlauzina pronunciation" which seems to be a genus name not often searched for, talked about and or relatively new, thus the results were more defined and I avoided having all those pronunciation links with the more common Genus names which a search for "Orchid Genus Pronunciation" may produce.

This link may have indeed been there all along, but I doubt it is a sponsored link and being quite plain text might not have been as popular, so may not have shown up on the first few pages of results. This may change however, if more people visit the site.



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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:08 am 
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Hello

The other thing to think about is not every website comes up in a search, they need to be submitted first... so the website could have been there... just not visible to search engines...

and advance searches also go a long way to help finding what you are looking for instead of having to look though the many many pages...

yes, guess looking for the pacific orchid, and an uncommon name on google at that was a help ;)


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Flask to Flower wrote:
time waits for no man, or something like that the saying goes...

Hi Andrew,

Nice to see you're still around ! ;)

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Excuse me shifting to species names, but I have never fixed how to pronounce 'nobile'.
I first assumed it was something like 'NO-bilee' but my cousin (who had conversed with orchid gods) made it sound like 'knobbly'.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Excuse me shifting to species names, but I have never fixed how to pronounce 'nobile'.
I first assumed it was something like 'NO-bilee' but my cousin (who had conversed with orchid gods) made it sound like 'knobbly'.

However anyone else pronounces it, rightly or wrongly I've always pronounced it 'Nobeel'..........(although I do like the sound of 'knobbly')

Steve


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